Now that you've seen the Ace Match of ESGN FN Season 3, do…
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invisigoat
4 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile452 Posts
On February 17 2014 12:49 invisigoat wrote: There is no reason to rush and ban things. The game is not even officially out yet. The pros will create their own solutions eventually or at least all use Nat & Tinkmaster. This is a solution all right, it's just a bad one where a lot of games are being decided by the RNG of these cards. | ||
NoIntestines
United States54 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile452 Posts
On February 18 2014 02:58 NoIntestines wrote: The big problem with Pagle is that he's untweakable. A decrease of any of his numbers would make him too risky and he would be nigh unplayable. This leaves 3 options: 1) nerf cards that go with him, like the way Blizzard "solved" Ice Block by hitting the other Mage stuff, 2) buff cards that hurt him, like Crazed Alchemist or something, the problem being those cards hit other stuff too, or 3) ban him in ranked and let tournament hosts decide for themselves, at least until more cards come out. I like option 3. Nigh unplayable is much, much better for the health of the game than to leave him OP as he is. | ||
figq
680 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile452 Posts
On February 20 2014 02:34 figq wrote: My stance is a little different. I support variety. I embrace the idea of Managrind Limited Swiss with no legendaries and no epics allowed. So I don't mind if there are tournaments that ban certain cards, and thus create their own special meta. I think that's not just exciting, but it would allow good players to shine even more and demonstrate their ability to figure out the different metagames within different formats. That said, I don't want to see these two cards banned from *every* tournament. A lot of game elements and cards are rng-related. There is also Rag, sylv, spells like missiles, avenging, deadly shot, cleave, the kodo, the bomber etc etc. You can control the rng to certain extent, and you can play around it as well. That applies to both tinkmaster and pagle too. If you play reasonably, you'd always use tinkmaster on such big creature that no matter the outcome it's about the same for you, so you won't benefit (or be punished) all that much from the rng. Same for pagle; you have to plan a little bit how to play it, defend it, buff it, be prepared to make it useful if he doesn't catch anything. That concern means if you are really strict, you will not always feel okay with just playing it, and it may require some setup. Hm, this sounds pretty cool actually. It would certainly help shake up the fairly stale metagame we're at right now. | ||
jamaican
13 Posts
On February 18 2014 02:58 NoIntestines wrote: The big problem with Pagle is that he's untweakable. A decrease of any of his numbers would make him too risky and he would be nigh unplayable. I think this is plainly wrong. Make him 0-3 hp OR make him cost 3 Mana OR decrease the fishing number to something around 40% would each be perfectly fine. Besides from that, he is not that op and most people generally overrate him, especially since the fact that there are games of 3-X rounds of not drawing anything which makes him one of the most random early drops there is. Completely aside from the fact that most people underestimate the value of 1-drops against him like dust devil, flame imp, leper gnome, worgen infiltrator etc. that kill him easily (and very early) with two hits. | ||
w1nter
Lithuania4 Posts
Nat Pagle - I think Pagle is an absolutely atrocious card. It's bad enough to be removed from the game or completely reworked. Giving a player %50 to draw a card for free in Hearthstone is a terrible idea. The decks run only 30 cards and that's way too low for a card like Pagle. Every time opps. Nat draws are your doesn't, you're already way behind. Magic can get away with such cards, because of the deck sizes. Hearthstone, can't and honestly, Pagle is making this game really bad. Tinkmaster - It does have bad mechanics. I've seen people play it and go like "welp, if it doesn't make a 1/1 I lost". Not sure why would you need a card like that in your game who possesses equal threat to you and to your opp? At the same time, it's a fine way to deal with legendaries like Ragnaros, Ysera, Sylvannas, Tyrion and such, so it's a difficult spot to have a strong opinion on it. Unlike Nat Pagle. | ||
Thunderhorse
United States1 Post
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MasakA
France2 Posts
I agree with figq, you cannot ban a card just because it's based on luck : I have both of these cards, and i'm quite unlucky with Nate. Sometimes, i'm thinking about a replacement. I'm unlucky with Tink too, but I won't replace it in my druid deck. You have to look at the effect : even though you're disappointed with the 5-5 instead of the 1-1, the benefit is great anyway. Luck is part of the game. For me, if you want to ban these cards, its the same thing that "oh, I want to ban luck from Hearthstone", which is nonsense of course ! | ||
Valikyr
Sweden17 Posts
On February 28 2014 18:24 MasakA wrote: If you ban those two cards, you'll have to ban every RnG card, which makes a lot. I agree with figq, you cannot ban a card just because it's based on luck : I have both of these cards, and i'm quite unlucky with Nate. Sometimes, i'm thinking about a replacement. I'm unlucky with Tink too, but I won't replace it in my druid deck. You have to look at the effect : even though you're disappointed with the 5-5 instead of the 1-1, the benefit is great anyway. Luck is part of the game. For me, if you want to ban these cards, its the same thing that "oh, I want to ban luck from Hearthstone", which is nonsense of course ! Pagle is different because it can decide games so fast and has no interesting decisions around it. Tinkmaster is better though. | ||
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